IMAGINE and the jews

So Rabbi, happy Chanukah.

Adam Mintz (01:26.558)

Happy Hanukkah.

Geoffrey Stern (01:28.467)

We are not doing the parsha we’re doing, we’re gonna talk about Shabbat Chanukah. And you know, it made me realize that because Chanukah is eight days, every year you do have a Shabbat Chanukah. You don’t have a Shabbat Purim, you don’t have, but every year you have the confluence of Shabbat and Chanukah. And back in 1995, I was on a ski vacation in Telluride, Colorado.

I was visiting my sister and she invited me to a Chavurah Friday night service and she said with your background why don’t you give a little drash? Why don’t you give a little sermon? And I talked then about what the “Imagine” Holiday is for the Jews and what I said was it doesn’t happen once a year. It happens 52 times a year. It’s actually called Shabbat.

Adam Mintz (02:13.652)

you

Geoffrey Stern (02:22.011)

And the next day I was skiing and a guy stops me and says, you know, I’m a DJ and I was at the service and I played IMAGINE and I dedicated it to the rabbi who gave the drash at the service last night. So, I smile every time I think of that. But I do love the song Imagine. And it does have some beautiful universal, I guess, types of thoughts that I call an Imagine moment. You imagine this, you imagine that.

Adam Mintz (02:37.427)

That’s great.

Geoffrey Stern (02:52.294)

And since the time that I made that sermon, there actually came out a book, and it’s called John Lennon and the Jews, and it’s by a professor of Hebrew University called Ze’ev Maghen. And it actually is a seething critique of all that imagine the song represents, and much of what progressive, idealistic, universal thought is.

Adam Mintz (03:18.073)

Okay.

Geoffrey Stern (03:19.603)

And so that has changed since 95 and many people feel that what’s happening on campuses and what really is responsible for the world not understanding how we Jews have to defend ourselves, have to protect ourselves, have to worry about our family is because of the concepts and philosophies that are in imagine. So I decided today Rabbi that we would go ahead.

and talk a little bit about those aspects of Judaism that are very much “Imagine”, but while also addressing some of the arguments that Ze’ev Maghen and he’s not alone, other thinkers have written about it. What does IMAGINE mean to you? Is that a sorg that appeals to you?

Adam Mintz (03:51.381)

you

Adam Mintz (04:06.165)

It is definitely a song that appeals to me. Obviously, it’s a song that appeals to me this time of year. And every time we cross the park, we walk past Strawberry Fields on 72nd Street as you enter the park and they’re playing Imagine. So, Sharon and I think about that song as well. So yeah, it’s always very much on our mind. it’s, you know, this is the book and the idea of analyzing Imagine as it applies to Jewish history and Jewish ritual is an amazing topic

Geoffrey Stern (04:35.444)

And you know, what could be so wrong with, someday you’ll join me and the world will be as one. It’s kind of hard to understand what the stigma or the vitriol is. But I’m gonna quote a little bit of Ze’ev Maghen so we can kind of set it up. And in response to the song, he says, I don’t want John Lennon’s vision to be fulfilled speedily and in our days. I don’t want it to be fulfilled ever.

Adam Mintz (04:41.18)

Right.

Geoffrey Stern (05:03.228)

My objection to his program is not that it’s overly idealistic, but rather that there is nothing at all ideal about it. Because John’s beautiful ballad is in reality a death march, a requiem mass for the human race. So what Ze’ev Maghen is arguing is not only does he believe in cultural multiplicity,

that we should respect cultures and that every movement that has tried to make the world one usually ends up with an ism after it and it doesn’t work out well for the Jews, it doesn’t work out well for humanity and what he ultimately says is he talks about preferential love and Rabbi if there’s one thing we can say after studying Bereshit all these weeks since October is that

Adam Mintz (05:48.313)

you

Geoffrey Stern (05:55.464)

God clearly has preferential love and preaches preferential love. And what thinkers like Ze’ev Maghen says is you can’t love in the abstract. People who love all of human mankind but don’t really have (preferential) love for their families or for their spouse or for members of their family, they’re going about it backwards. And I think what he would argue would be by loving the particular, by

by loving your wife in a way that is different from your love for another human neighbor. Loving your children in a particular preferential fashion, that is the Jewish way. But I think where he loses it is he doesn’t say, that ultimately is the best gateway to a universal love. You don’t have to reject one in order to touch the other.

Adam Mintz (06:46.647)

It’s so funny you said that because I was gonna say I don’t think John Lennon would disagree with that argument. That’s fine. Particular love is important. That’s not what the song is about.

Geoffrey Stern (06:56.69)

What I find amazing is, for those of you who are watching this on YouTube, I have a picture of the original cover of the book. He has changed the cover since. But just believe me if I say John Lennon is wearing a hat, he has a payos and of course he has a beard, because that’s how we knew him at a certain period. It’s funny that I think he wanted to sell more copies, but ultimately the picture of John Lennon that I’m looking at is going to feel very comfortable.

with the zemirot Shabbat that we’re gonna start singing that many a hasid would sing at the top of their lungs. Just kind of fascinating that he put such a picture on. But let’s just quickly go through the lyrics of the song and maybe just point out what are a potential challenge to us as the Jewish people. So he says, imagine there’s no heaven.

Adam Mintz (07:49.624)

you

Geoffrey Stern (07:51.942)

It’s easy if you try. No hell below us, above us only sky. Imagine all the people livin for today. So Rabbi, what he’s saying is, why do we have to look up to heaven and look to hell, reward and punishment, and live our life in that manner? Why can’t we just live in the moment and not be, and I’m gonna use the quote in a few minutes from Pirkei Avot, not be like a servant who serves their master.

Adam Mintz (08:17.923)

So.

Geoffrey Stern (08:21.099)

al tenai l’kabel pras We will find out that these thoughts don’t have to be the only thoughts within Judaism, but clearly you can find a home for what he just said in our tradition. He says, imagine there’s no countries. It isn’t hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for and no religion too.

Adam Mintz (08:21.335)

Thank

Geoffrey Stern (08:45.212)

So that’s going to be fascinating because what we’re going to try to do, Rabbi, is we’re going to try to find Jewish sources that actually focus on the no religion too bit, which is going to be surprising. I can’t wait to hear what your thoughts are. Nothing to kill or die for. I think that’s going to end up being something that’s fascinating and actually impactful about the Chanukah story itself.

Adam Mintz (08:47.055)

Nice.

Geoffrey Stern (09:13.287)

But let’s just raise the issues here. Imagine no possessions, no need for greed or hunger, a brotherhood of man. Again, very valid, beautiful thought. How does that fit into Judaism? And I hope someday you’ll join us and the world will live as one. So these are wonderful thoughts that have made this song so iconic.

But are they in fact in contrast to the Jewish religion? What do you say Rabbi? What’s your gut reaction?

Adam Mintz (09:48.979)

No, I mean, need to unpack it and we need to see each argument. I mean, he’s pushing back.

against what you would classically think as religion. He’s rejecting heaven, he’s rejecting hell, there are no countries, there’s nothing to die for, there are no religions. That’s why this is an interesting exercise, because it sounds like he’s pushing back against religion. But what you need to see is that Judaism is much more nuanced than what we always think.

Geoffrey Stern (10:21.107)

So what has happened in the 20 plus years since I first gave that sermon is I always knew the Zemira called Ma Yedidut. But as I looked at it again, I started to find so many parallels to imagine that we’re going to use it. This is a Zemira, I believe it’s sung on Friday night, that has in it, towards the end, it says,

Geoffrey Stern (10:56.988)

Yes, the main line that made me think of imagine was it says, ma’en olam haba yom Shabbat Menucha That the day of Shabbat is like the world to come. It’s like the redemption times. And in a sense what it’s saying is, because when I said that Judaism must have an imagined holiday, what it is is we imagine. It’s aspirational.

that there once will be a time where there will be a Camelot, where there will be that city on the mountain. It’s not now, but it has the potential of being. And what the singer of this song, the writer of this song says is that every Shabbat is actually a taste of Shabbat. And as a result, we act, just like on Passover, we act out leaving Egypt.

Adam Mintz (11:45.339)

you

Geoffrey Stern (11:54.196)

He acts out in this song a bunch of things that actually talk about some of the issues that are in Imagine. The first is kind of obvious that you don’t work on Shabbat and we always think of not working on Shabbat as a lot of you can’t do this and you can’t do that. But what this Zemira does

Adam Mintz (11:58.843)

Okay.

Geoffrey Stern (12:20.979)

is he ties it very much into l’taneg Betanugim, the Oneg Shabbat, the absolute joy of the Shabbat. And Rabbi, there are those that say that the Shabbat is the greatest gift of the Jews to mankind. And I would guess that most of them are thinking in terms of almost human rights. Once your servant has a day to themselves, they own themselves, so to speak.

Adam Mintz (12:47.355)

you

Geoffrey Stern (12:48.936)

They are the masters of their own fate for at least one day. But making it a day of relaxation, Rabbi, making it a day of oneg, of joy, means that all of us, once you can enjoy something, that means you can stop and smell the roses. You have your life to you. I think that is the one sense, the aspirational sense of Shabbat that comes out clear.

in terms of it was revolutionary. It’s that moment, not once a year, but once a week, where you can just stop and enjoy.

Adam Mintz (13:25.308)

There’s no question that that’s right. I mean, just the way the song is set up, it’s all set up leading up to Me’en Olam Ha Ba. So everything you said is right. And the reason it’s so wonderful is because you have a taste of the world to come. you know, leaving aside, imagine for a minute, that’s our goal, right? Our goal is the world to come. And can you imagine we can taste it once a week? That’s a remarkable gift.

Geoffrey Stern (13:50.878)

So he has in it, not only the teichal kol haavodot, that all your work should stop, but he says even before the holiday begins, there’s this expectation. And of course, you have that on spades in Christmas where kids are looking forward to the presents and people are cleaning their house. My God Rabbi, we have that once a week. Mibba od yom muchanim, while it is still day, we prepare.

Jews historically have saved up their shekels so that they had enough money for some meat and some chicken at their Shabbat meal.

Adam Mintz (14:29.422)

You should just look, tarnagolim mifutamim, right? That’s fatted chickens. That’s fantastic, right? Even the type of food, like it’s the best steak, the best brisket. So the author of this zemer really, you know, kind of draws out the drama kind of of the Shabbat table, which is wonderful.

Geoffrey Stern (14:53.106)

And of course, it never gets away from the fact that six days you will work, but on the seventh day you will rejoice, b’li metzarim, without boundary. It’s infinite, infinite joy. And then it says, and this is pretty amazing, it says, wealthy and poor alike shall honor it and shall thereby merit redemption.

Nachlat Yaakov Yirash B’li Meitzerim Nachlat Reikhi Bedu Hu Ashir Verash So, Lennon talks about there’s no belongings, there’s no differentiation. I think one of the things that actually made me become a religious Jew rabbi at age 14 was I went to Williamsburg and I saw people that from every socio-economic evaluation were not on the top of the grid.

Adam Mintz (15:37.213)

you

Geoffrey Stern (15:50.26)

They had very meager belongings and forms of income. But on Shabbat, they walked around like they were kings. You have a scene in Fiddler on the Roof where Tevye, his wife, is telling him, we need to do this and we need to fix this leak in this pipe. And he goes into a changing room and he opens it up after he’s changed for Shabbat and he comes out a different man. The Shabbat had that ability.

Adam Mintz (16:01.726)

you

Geoffrey Stern (16:19.899)

to make everybody taste a world where money didn’t matter, where social status didn’t matter. It’s really something that I think if we don’t feel we all need to, that by not having the ability to make plans, to work on business, we all become equal and monetary material things don’t matter anymore.

Adam Mintz (16:43.507)

Right, mean, that’s the great equalizer, which is fantastic, right? That’s also Me’en olam haba, by the way, right? There aren’t going to be rich and poor in olam haba. Everybody’s going to be the same.

Geoffrey Stern (16:58.182)

It says, Hafzenu asurim, ve’gam lachshov machshovot, hehorim miturim u l’shadei habanot. So what we don’t normally think about today is we think about on Shabbat what you’re not allowed to do. But he talks about what you’re not allowed to think about. You’re not allowed to be making plans. You live in the moment.

The only plans that you can make relate to marrying off a child. or something. I mean, it’s very Fiddler on the Roofie. But again, it is creating a context and creating a day that truly is that imagine. Imagine if money didn’t matter. Imagine if you didn’t have to plant a field or open up the shop or go out and peddle. It’s just beautiful.

Adam Mintz (17:53.981)

Yeah, mean, Leshadeh Habanot (to make matches) not only you’re allowed to think about Leshadeh Habanot, but Shabbos is the time to make those matches, right? Sharon and I met on Shabbos in a shul in Long Island 39 years ago. So, you know, that’s what Shabbos is for, which is also wonderful.

Geoffrey Stern (18:14.087)

So I want to give some of the rabbinic texts that lie behind this song, who by the way, I don’t really think they really know who wrote, but it’s certainly this zemira this Niggun became a part of the liturgy. Heschel in his amazing book, The Sabbath, talks about a Midrash where God comes down from heaven and says to the Jewish people, if you keep my commandments,

you will have the world to come. And they said, show us in this world an example of the world to come. And this is where in this Midrash, God says the Sabbath is an example of the world to come. So this concept of the Sabbath as an as-if, as an imagined type of day, is fairly well known within the

the Midrash. The other thing that it talks about is on the seventh day he ceased and was refreshed. I’ve always loved that expression, that word Shabbat V’yee Nafash. The word for soul is nephesh and V’yee Nafash is to be refreshed, to be rejuvenated, to have your soul reinvigorated.

So it’s, he rested from work and refreshed from thought is what the Midrash Agadah says. So deep into our tradition is this concept of the Shabbat that so many of us think of in terms of things that you can’t do was actually this kind of island in the week, an island in the calendar that let you refresh your thoughts as well, your aspirations as well.

Adam Mintz (19:46.432)

Okay.

It’s interesting that today in society, they’re big on unplugging, right? That you should have a day where you don’t use your devices. And that’s really learned from Shabbos. That’s this medrash. Shabbat v’yinafash mimlacha vi’inafash mimachshava You should unplug and therefore you should have the freedom to just enjoy without your devices.

Geoffrey Stern (20:38.45)

And that’s what Lennon says, living for today. You you just live for the moment. So, getting back to what is in the Lennon song about there’s no heaven above us and no hell below us. This whole concept of living for the world to come in terms of the brownie points or the punishment that awaits the sinner. It is in Pirkei Avot, and I quoted it before, it says, Antigonus, a man of Soho,

Adam Mintz (20:41.352)

Right.

Geoffrey Stern (21:07.667)

said, not like servants who serve the master in the expectation of receiving a reward, but be like servants who serve the master without the expectation of receiving a reward and let the fear of heaven be upon you. This concept of Shalom al-Manat le-Kabel Pras, this is a very strong Pirkei Avot and The concept of not doing things

for reward and punishment. It’s called doing something l’shma for its own sake. It’s such a powerful thought within our tradition.

Adam Mintz (21:42.017)

For sure that’s right. mean, this idea of reward, we believe in reward and punishment. The second chapter of Shema says that if you listen to the commandments, then all these good things will happen. And if you don’t listen to the commandments and all these bad things will happen. So we don’t reject reward and punishment.

is that the only reason we do things is for the reward. It’s a very fine line how we deal with reward and punishment.

Geoffrey Stern (22:21.567)

But right in line with that there’s this other concept of schar mitzvah, mitzvah, schar avera, avera. That the reward for fulfilling a Mitzvah is the Mitzvah itself. Shabbat is the perfect example. We’re talking about all the amazing things that Shabbat can do for you. You don’t have to say, and what do I get out of it? It is the thing itself. It is this living for today.

and looking up at heaven and saying that’s just the sky above me. It is wonderful. Now this thing about thoughts, and again I would suggest that many of us when we think of Shabbat we think less about thoughts and we think more about what you can do and what you can’t do. But in Isaiah, and this is very famous, I think again on the high holidays we read this somewhere, but Isaiah says if

Adam Mintz (22:51.839)

Right.

Adam Mintz (23:14.849)

the the haftorah for Yom Kippur morning.

Geoffrey Stern (23:17.875)

Perfect. If you refrain from trampling, refrain from trampling the Shabbat, from pursuing your affairs on my holy day, if you call the Shabbat delight, God’s holy day honored. If you honor it and go not your ways, look to your affairs, nor strike bargains. So you don’t, asot, heftzecha material things he combines that with oneg.

The joy that we have on Shabbat, because we can’t create, because we can’t plan, is unmitigated perfect joy in just joy of itself. And they have this beautiful expression v’daber davar. Don’t think about the, don’t talk about the things. It’s a play with the word for dibur, which is to speak, and d’avar, which is a thing.

Just goes, These are not extraneous thoughts about Shabbat. These are the essence of that aspect of Shabbat which we all consider Oneg, the joy of Shabbat. And you have so much of this. The other thing that I will talk about is, and this is the most controversial Rabbi, “and no religion too.”

Adam Mintz (24:12.685)

Right.

Geoffrey Stern (24:40.628)

So, did, what did, he doesn’t say, and no God too, he says no religion too. And there are clearly, there are thoughts within our tradition that say that not all the commandments will always be kept. In the end of days, certain commandments will change. I think many of our listeners will know that Tisha B’Av and all the fast days associated with the destruction of the temple.

will be turned to days of rejoicing. But there’s also this idea of days that it says that Shabbat will be forever. Ot Hi L’olam where are we here?

Adam Mintz (25:19.04)

you

Geoffrey Stern (25:32.217)

It says OT, that it should be a sign forever. From this the rabbis learn that unlike other commandments that may not last forever, the Shabbat will always last forever. We have in our Birchat HaMazon, in our benching, a beautiful Harachaman, that Harachaman huyanchilenu yom shekulo Shabbat.

May the merciful and let us inherit the day which will be completely Shabbat.” So again it gets back to this concept of Shabbat becomes aspirational. Shabbat becomes an imagination of “what if”, what it will be like in the days to come when redemption is there. And so I really find

Adam Mintz (25:59.201)

you

Adam Mintz (26:23.383)

I just have I just have I just have a question. Do we say you have… Yom she kulo Shabbat. Will there be a Shabbat in the world to come or will every day be Shabbat?

Geoffrey Stern (26:37.78)

I think that’s the question. I think that’s the question. But one way or the other, what one of the Midrashim says is, beware that if we get to the world to come and you haven’t experienced the oneg of Shabbat, you might not find things so wonderful. You you’ll be looking for your tablet and for your TV and for your fast car and you haven’t trained yourself in the ability to just appreciate.

the beauty of the day. So, it is the idea of other mitzvot not being kept anymore is a fascinating idea because there are many who will say that the mitzvot are there to take us somewhere. The mitzvot are there

to move us from one place to the other. The Rambam in Moreh Nevuchim in the Guide for the Perplexed has a long thing about why the Jews had to take so long to get to the promised land. And he says because they had to be taken from one place to the other and you can’t do that overnight. And he actually says all the mitzvot are just for that. But in the Talmud in Nida it says, Amar Rav Yosef, zot omeret mitzvot mivatelet l’atid lavo

Adam Mintz (27:46.149)

you

Geoffrey Stern (28:02.856)

that the commandments will be nullified in the future. Now I will not say that this is mainstream. We did come across it a week or two ago, Rabbi, when we were talking about in the days to come, how will you look at the yetziat Mitzrayim? How will you go out and think about leaving Egypt when the future redemption is going to be easy and the redemption from Egypt was so difficult and we had to maybe cut a few corners? There’s this definite sense

Adam Mintz (28:16.774)

Okay.

Geoffrey Stern (28:32.391)

that Shabbat is giving us a taste and where we all end up is the fascinating interplay between Shabbat and the rest of the week. And that’s where I kind of want to end. Because I think if the, well Before we end there, this idea of the world will be one. Please join me. If you do not recognize in that the Shema Yisrael, Hear O Israel

The God who is our God one day will be one. You’ve really missed out on Alenu at the end of every service, but the idea is that all nations, Isaiah says, in the days to come the mount of God’s house shall stand firm above the mountains, the towers above the hills, and all the nations shall gaze upon it with joy, and the many people shall come and say, let us go to the mount of God.

Adam Mintz (29:11.847)

.

Geoffrey Stern (29:26.631)

So, this idea of there being no nations and no boundaries, again, is totally part of prophetic Judaism and is part of our liturgy. So how do we factor in particularism, preferential love, chosenness, if you will, and this universalism? And Rabbi, I will argue that the way you do it is Shabbat is one out of seven days.

Adam Mintz (29:53.158)

You

Geoffrey Stern (29:56.5)

And the Judaism who is all this worldly has always believed that before Shabbat comes you need to prepare and after Shabbat ends you need to make havdalah and get back to the bakery. And there is a place for preferential love but there is also a place to dream. And I think that is the message of our Zemirot, of our tradition.

And I will say just to end in getting back to the Maccabees that we only have the book of Maccabees in Greek. We don’t have the Hebrew original. But one thing that we do learn is that one of the major innovations of Judah the Maccabee was to fight on shabbat It records that the Jews during this period were attacked on shabbat

Rabbi, I’m sad to say that unfortunately our enemies have always known that our holidays and our Shabbat are holy to us and they attack us on Simchat Torah and they attack us on Yom Kippur and they attack us on Shabbat. That goes back to the Seleucids, but what Yehuda Maccabee said is, let us fight against every man who comes to attack us on the Shabbat day. He understood that when it comes to preserving ourselves,

Adam Mintz (30:55.624)

By the time to attack.

Geoffrey Stern (31:17.501)

preserving our culture, preserving our families, our villages, our people, preferential love and loving ourselves is the only option. And if there is any message that we want to give to the world is, on the one hand you need to have Shabbat, but on the other hand, if you cannot protect yourself, that love is meaningless. If you don’t have enough love for yourself and for your family and for your village and your tribe,

Adam Mintz (31:37.321)

That’s a great message. That’s a great way to end this whole discussion.

Geoffrey Stern (31:47.249)

then that love becomes love that is in the abstract and just that abstract love. I think that’s the perfect message of Hanukkah.

Geoffrey Stern (32:02.877)

So I’d like to wish us all peace on earth and goodwill to all, otherwise known as Shabbat Shalom!

Adam Mintz (32:10.856)

Shabbat Shalom Happy Hanukah everybody. Nice to see you. See you next week.

Geoffrey Stern (32:15.421)

See you next week, never stop imagining.