Yom Hazikaron

So welcome, Rabbi Adam, and welcome, Menachim Bombach. It’s such a privilege to have you. We were having lunch in Yerushalayim, I don’t know, it seems like three, four weeks ago. I visited two of the Haredi schools that are under Netzach Israel, your organization, where they teach secular studies, they teach math, history, science. And in the girls’ school, I saw pictures of the hostages, which shouldn’t really be a surprise to anybody, but we’re going to learn a little bit more about the challenges in the Haredi community and how radical that was.

1:45 – GS:

I talked to girls’ students who had gone down south and had taught and led youth groups with kids, their age and younger, who had been relocated. And it was their first time. Sometimes you talk about Israelis who have never left the country. These are Haredi young women who had never been exposed to different parts of the country, different types of Israelis. And you are at the forefront of taking the Haredi community and bringing it forward.

2:21 – GS:

So, first of all, Rabbi Bambach, welcome to Madlik Disruptive Torah. And I understand you’re a good friend of Rabbi Adam Mintz as well.

2:30 – MB:

I’m more than a friend. We are like a family. And thank you, Geoffrey, for this great opportunity to be a part of your great and enormous project, podcast.

2:41 – GS:

So, in the source sheet that will be attached to this podcast and on Sefaria, there is a YouTube video. And I had heard about your works and before our first meeting, I stumbled upon it. And it actually relates very much to Yom Hazikaron and the day that on Sunday night, we will observe around the world, really, in solidarity with Israel. And it is a very touching, meaningful video, but more so if you understand the context.

3:19 – GS:

So let me just describe that video, but I definitely welcome everybody to click on the link and watch it on YouTube. It has thousands of views and downloads. And it was a number of years ago. How many years ago was it?

3:34 – Menachem Bombach

Yeah, it’s about six years ago.

3:37 – GS:

six years ago in front of a class of Haredi. They look Hasidic. A lot of them have peyot. And it is on, probably on Yom Hazikaron, which as you will explain shortly, is not a day that is typically commemorated in the Haredi community. And you pass around pictures of Israeli children. There’s one picture of a child lying on his father’s grave. But all of these pictures are different. They have different names associated with them.

4:11 – GS:

And you ask your students to give their associations. And they’re heart-wrenching. These kids associate with these orphans the way you would expect one human being to another. They don’t have a lot of baggage that we adults have, but they had to be given the chance then to come up and express what they were feeling about how it would be for that child to come home and not have a dad. And after each student was given a specific name and picture of a fallen soldier, you said Psalms, you said Tehillim, and each student was supposed to have that particular gave a – face to the losses.

4:58 – GS:

And then they all came up and talked, and it was just so meaningful. But for some of our audience who would not understand why this is not normal, Rabbi, why don’t you give us the context of Yom Hazikaron in the Haredi community before that moment, at that moment, and possibly what it is going to be like next Sunday and Monday.

5:21 – MB:

Yeah, so you described it beautifully. I think it’s the first time I had someone describe the video so brilliantly. I will tell you the story because everybody knows the Haredi community. Because they’re not really a part of the Israeli society and the majority are not sending their kids to the army. So actually, it’s an embarrassing day. It’s not a day, why you should stop and thinking about something that you need to give answer for your kids.

5:53 – MB:

They’re going to ask you tough questions. So, when I started my school, my main mission is to integrate the Haredi society in Israel. So that means that it’s not just about teaching them English, math, science. It’s also about to make them to raise their solidarity toward Israeli society. So once Yom Hazikaron, the Memorial Day, when it came, I said for my staff, listen, we want to do something for our kids and they need to be identified with this terrible day.

6:34 – MB:

So, let’s do something. And it was not easy. It was very tough conversation because some of my staff, it was even not easy to teach them English and math. But then they said, OK, I understand it’s important, but why Zionism? And I said, listen, it’s not about Zionism, it’s about menschlichkeit. It’s about human beings. We need to be united. We are one nation. And then we decided we’re going to do it.

7:03 – MB:

But the story is interesting because U recorded this video.

7:10 – MB:

In Israel, there is a famous journalist, his name is Raviv Drucker, very famous. And he has a project, he has a project in the television, and he came to me one day and said, Menachem, please, I think you’re doing a very important job, and you do something for Am Yisrael. We would like to make a documentary film about you. And I said, no, I have a lot of antagonism in the community. People don’t like what I’m doing.

7:40 – MB:

So, I don’t think it’s a good idea. But then he sent just tomorrow after that. He sent his researcher, Israel Rosner, and Israel came to me and said, Menachem, you should know, I’m telling you, we need to give some hope for the community in Israel. And what you are doing, and this is something that touched my heart very much, because I think very much about the future of Israel. Just imagine that our community is doubling itself each 16 years.

8:12 – MB:

And just now, it’s about 23% of the first grade in Israel are Haredis. If you take also the Arabs, so 50% of the first class in Israel are either Arabs or Haredi. And just since October 7, you understand, that we need to, it’s very important in its agency to push much more and to make everything what we can to integrate the Haredi inside. So, Israel Rosner came and all of a sudden, he came to the ceremony and I didn’t realize that he’s standing because he just came the whole year around.

8:52 – MB:

He came and spoke with the kids, spoke with the staff, And then it becomes a part of the film. And a year after that, someone released. And cut the part of the old film. And it’s become like a viral video all over. I can tell you, it was two years. I joined the Israel parade in Manhattan. And I was always shocked that some people recognize my face just from this movie. So, I’m blessed in some ways that I touched so many souls in Israel.

9:27 – MB:

And this is exactly what we have to do mainly in those days. To make the Haredim much more with solidarity, to take care, to be a part of Israel. And this is why Netzach is exist. This is exactly why Netzach is exist.

9:43 – GS:

So you made the point that really the why it has always been such a difficult day for Haredim is because they’re not in the army. But obviously, and you mentioned this in the video, where you talk to the students and you say, these soldiers fell protecting us so that we could study Torah. So even if you follow the Haredi position, which is they are serving in their front, just as the IDF is serving in its front, it doesn’t make any sense.

10:18 – GS:

That they could not embrace as a partnership. And I’m just wondering if six years ago it was an uncomfortable day. I can only imagine what ambiguity there must be this year. Is there any talk on the street? Do you have any sense of how the Haredi community, and maybe you can’t even talk about them, as a whole, they’re individuals just like every other community, but how will you be commemorating it and how will some of your peers, your friends, your students, what is the variety of ways and is it changing?

11:00 – MB:

You will not believe, but I just got a survey dated before October 7. And it’s a Haredi from Kekar HaShabbat, very famous site, Haredi site. And it was, if I remember, it was for two years ago. And they asked people, when it comes day soon, are you standing or not? So 77% said they are standing.

11:30 – GS:

Let’s explain to our listeners. So what happens on Yom HaZikaron is at sunset on this year, it’ll be Monday night, a siren sounds, the same kind of siren that you would sound, unfortunately, sounds all the time in these days for a red alert. And everybody stands up. If they’re driving a car, they stop the car and they stand by the side of the car. It’s the most powerful and eerie moment. And what you, Rabbi, are saying is that in a recent poll, 77% of Haredi who were polled will mark that observance.

12:12 – MB:

Exactly, and you will not believe the next percentage, 59% said they are standing in the street when there are next settlers.

12:27 – MB:

were next to secularists. So once you are on the street and you see secularists, you will stand just to respect. And I think if you would ask the same question now, after post-October 7, I think the numbers will raise dramatically. And as you mentioned, it’s about, first of all, it’s about gratitude. Plain and simple. Even if there are disagreements about politics or ideology, we all owe a huge debt of the brave of the soldiers who gave their lives for us, Haredim included.

13:02 – MB:

Showing up in Memorial Day, it’s a way to express that gratitude and appreciation. So, it’s very simple. You will not believe, but after it was published all over, so many people in the community I would never expect came to me secretly and quietly and said, wow, you touched my heart so much. You know, everybody understands the Haredim has now access to the internet. It’s not like 20 years ago. The official number speaks about 70% who has access to the internet.

13:36 – MB:

So they use WhatsApp and status sim, all kinds of techniques and media. And you know, those kinds of things becomes very viral inside the community. And I know, but I can tell you something new happens that the last three years, There are many ceremonies from the Haredi communities that also some political members of Knesset joined the last year. And this year, again, Netzach Yehuda is doing something very huge ceremony, but also the first time in Beit Shemesh.

14:10 – MB:

Beit Shemesh, as maybe you know about that, but the last election was two members, Haredi members, who run by themselves as an independence party. And they’re not belonging not to Agudat Israel, not Degel HaTorah, not Shas, just they are part of Netzach. And they asked for the mayor to do something for Yom Hazikaron. You will now believe we have more than 500 people who registered for this event.

14:44 – MB:

The people who are going to come are Haredim, only Haredim.

14:50 – GS:

It’s amazing you mentioned the established political parties, but that raises the issue of leadership. Would you say that most of this is organic, or are there any leaders within the Haredi established community who have the backbone, the foresight, and the vision? Or is this another, it’s a unique situation of the “Rov”, of the community leading the way? How would you characterize it?

15:21 – MB:

I really, you know, it’s, you know, you heard about Likya Aner. I think I also shared the last time when I talked to you. But she asked, it’s very important to understand, she asked for some years ago, for many Haredim, if you are proud to become, to be an Israeli. So, 46% said they absolutely agree with this phrase, we are proud to be Israeli. And then you have 21%, they’re quite agree, and then the rest of them, they’re not agree with them.

15:55 – MB:

But this is a very nice thing because if you’re speaking, about the Haredi who is identified with Israel, it’s absolutely organic. And it comes to bottom up more and more people. As you know, I was also involved very much in the encouragement of Haredim to become a part of the second stage in the army since October 7. And it was fascinating to see that more and more Haredim, they have the courage and they are very proud to take part in this many projects.

16:33 – MB:

So it’s tough, it’s about culture, it’s many barriers, but we can see more and more and more things that, you know, it generates a lot of optimism in the coming years.

16:48 – Adam Mintz:

I have a question, Menachem, going back to the Yom HaZikaron, the experience in the Midrashah. How did the other Rabbanim, your teachers, how did they react to the whole ceremony?

17:03 – MB:

You know, some of them were indifferent. I’m not sure, but that’s why some of the rabbis came to me and said, Menachem, it’s impossible. I’m going to leave now the school. And he was a very significant teacher. He teach Gemara and he loved the place, but he said it’s too much for me. Yeah, everybody reacted differently. But we know leadership is about to influence the community, to influence the kids, the families.

17:36 – MB:

And I want to tell you, no one child left the school since then because of those kinds of actions, right? And I took some risk. I didn’t know if the parents is going to love it, but I never asked them. And I was fascinated. And I was shocked after they just sent me nice messages. We love very much what you do, and we appreciate, thank you for the courage you show us the way. And this, I think, if you are thinking about the pain of Israeli society, and what Israel is suffering from the last few months, I think the normal people in the Haredi community feels ambivalence but uncomfortable, and I think this is something that would really change.

18:25 – MB:

Yoma Zikaron now, I talk to many people, even I have a community, I have a shul. And I do a Misheberach Lechayalei Tzahal in my shul, even it’s very, very affirmed in a conservative shul. And I saw people get out, when I started the Misheberach days, get out from the shul. And I said, listen, this shul is a place respect Jewish soldiers. And we respect Am Yisrael, and who don’t like the place, you can go to find another.

18:56 – MB:

And you will not believe, only two people from 100 people, everybody stays, even though some of them are very conservative, conservative Haredim. So, I think people as individuals, identified the field, they are mentioned, they understand you cannot stay aside. We cannot, you know, be against those noble acts from the soldiers. So, yeah, I want just to share one story. That touched my heart very much after this film was published.

19:35 – MB:

And I want to share with you, because I shared with many times, but I want to share with you because it’s a story that gives a lot of hope of the future of Israelis in Israeli society. It was a day after this film was published, came to me a Chabad guy, and he said, I’m just, you’re Rabbi Bombach, he said, yes, listen, I’m just now coming back 45 minutes from Rehovot just to tell you thank you in my name and my name of my family.

20:07 – MB:

And the story is that he said, I have a grandmother, she’s 87 years old, she lives in a kibbutz, and she hates haredim. She hates haredim, and some of her kids became haredim. And for more than 17 years, she don’t want any relationship with them. Because actually, they lost a child in the army, yeah? You can understand it, and she’s a Holocaust survivor. Very intellectual woman, very special.

20:37 – MB:

And they tried to send mediators and people who can talk to her, but she was very strict. She said, no, no, no. A big no. And last night, that’s what the Chabad guy said. She said for the whole family, she called the whole family to come to the kibbutz. We didn’t know what to expect for. I wasn’t on my way to the United States. My brother was to Bat Yam, to Bar Mitzvah. And we just leave everything, we run, we took our kids, and we just drove so fast just to get in and to see my grandmother.

21:10 – MB:

And then she said, listen, Before I’m going to say something, I would like all of you to watch together with me this film of Yom Hazikaron that you described, Geoffrey. And after they watched the film, she said, I just want to apologize about all those years that we didn’t have any relationship. I just didn’t know there are some Haredim who respect Jewish soldiers. And they cried, and he said, you saved my family.

21:41 – MB:

I have another story. It was a guy, 91 old, Holocaust survivor. He wrote me an email and said, I’m very close to die. And I’m blessed. I thank God that I’m still alive to see the hope that you are bringing from Israel. And I really believe those, even it’s, you know, people say, oh, you’re a 1,300,000 people. And while we are talking, the numbers are growing. So how do you think how you can influence so many people, but we know in terms of numbers and in terms of, you know, of changes and those kinds of things, It changed.

22:28 – MB:

We can now point out of so many influences in many different areas just because we publicly, and we’re not behind anything, just publicly saying what we believe. And I think more and more Haredim have become more and more identified and a part of it.

22:50 – GS:

So, when the war broke out, we all understood how the government had failed, and volunteers, mitnadvim, really filled the gap. And I think for most of our listeners, the face of the haredim were Zakah, the haredim who have traditionally gone and saved body parts and given honor and respect to the those who have died in terrorist attacks and whatever, but were there other things that the Haredi community did?

23:22 – GS:

I’ve heard stories about women just going to support shiva minyanim or shivas in houses. Can you give us a little bit of an insight in other ways that organically the Haredi community has been affected and effected the situation in Israel in the last seven months?

23:42 – MB:

Yes, so actually I was also involved to encourage more haredim to go to the second stage project in the army. That means they get trained for two weeks and then they have the reserve in many, many areas. And we run a very nice and a special campaign. You also, your organization was a part of it and it was very successful in terms of to make more, more numbers because the ratio was 20%. I mean, if you want 2,000 people to volunteer, you have to get 10,000 because not everybody is accepted of many, many reasons.

24:23 – MB:

If you have not, you know, you have any background, many, many, many issues. So we run very nice campaign and it worked nice, but I can tell you I expect it should be more Haredim. But the idea of this project was also about to normalize the uniform. We want very much that Haredim, every Haredi in every city who lives in a Haredi city, the kids and the matures should see more and more people with uniform.

24:56 – MB:

And it worked, but not enough. Yes, but this is where it’s very nice. And I can tell you until now, we have almost thousands of Haredim now because of this project in the army. And we are continue working for this in the coming months. But beside this project, you know, the 10% Haredim is considered more than Haredim. And there’s another 30% considered a heredim with modern touch, and there’s another heredim who is, you know, the conservative heredity, I mean, the majority of silent, and then we have the extreme heredim.

25:37 – MB:

So, what happened since October 7, besides those 40%, the 10%, the 30%, we figured out there is another population that we can call them people who care. People who care, even if they’re not really Israeli, so maybe they don’t know about Israel too much, but they do everything that they can to support everything. They send materials, they visit people, they bring food to the army and to families. It was very nice, but still, I think culture is much stronger than anything else.

26:19 – MB:

Because once it becomes, after two and three months, you know, people go back to the same olam kimina gono’ek, people go back to the same behaviors, the same customs, and that’s why the only way to really make a huge change in the coming years is to teach. I just wrote an article about civic science, that we need to teach those kids civics. They need to be, you don’t know what to be a citizenship in Israel.

26:48 – MB:

And then when they grow, they don’t have any questions about that. It will be natural for them to be identified, to take a part. This is exactly what we are doing in our 20 schools, almost 20 schools, because we believe that in the age of 5, 6, 7, you learn about those values and about obligations, it makes you a different person.

27:15 – GS:

You know, that normally, I think, people from the outside, when they see Haredim or ultra-religious or religious Jews doing something to help someone who’s not of the same mindset or culture, we almost feel there’s a sense of trying to make them religious, trying to be mekarev is the Hebrew word. And I think there’s an organization called Tzohar, I’m sure you’re aware of, that their whole approach is we are here to serve.

27:53 – GS:

And I think, and maybe I’m projecting, I’d love to hear your opinion on this. That during the war when Haredim went out and they volunteered in any way they could, so whether it was meant bringing food to a shiva, I think really they put themselves in a position where they were there just to serve. And as you said, there was an element of hakarat ha-tov, of recognizing and being thankful. There was also a big element of connectiveness It was clear that they benefited as much from going down south and being engaged with people that were different than them.

28:41 – GS:

but trying to help them deal with being relocated and help them deal with keeping up their studies. We gain, we give as much as we get, and we get as much as we give. And I think that potentially could be a paradigm changer where we all really realize that we were killed because we were Jews, we were maimed because we were Jews, and I didn’t, I’ll just put one more thing (into the discussion). I didn’t hear a sense at all of any critique of the (dance) rave that these kids were dancing on Shabbat, they were being mechalel Shabbat (desecrating the Sabbath).

29:22 – GS:

It was so clear the nation was together for the first time. Those are our kids, we are their parents, their brothers. Am I drinking the Kool-Aid or am I right?

29:34 – MB:

You’re absolutely right. You’re absolutely right. I didn’t find any one of those people who tried to convince or to be Mekarev. It comes from simply pure place. And actually, I mean, let’s not forget values like unity, solidarity, and loving your neighbor. These are very cool Jewish values. So commemorating Memorial Day is a great way for the Haredi, that’s exactly what I’m saying. It’s a great way for the Haredi community to show that commitment to those values in action.

30:12 – MB:

I mean, so this is the only way we can do, but there’s a lot of work to do. It’s not a hachmeh (innovation), a huge hachmeh to do those kinds of acts and volunteer just when we’re in the hedges in a very risky position. I think as Jewish people, we understand we are a Jewish nation, we have the same destiny, and we have to do everything that we can to work shoulder to shoulder. And to even, you know, I just explained this morning for a group, we don’t just need to understand the differentiation between pluralism and tolerance.

30:52 – MB:

Pluralism means that you believe there is many existence. Everybody’s, everything is truth. But as an Orthodox, you’re not a pluralism, but you have tolerance. And that’s mean you understand people as different, way and practice and be deaf. Yes as a human being. Yes, fully understanding and fully respected And this is something we can educate even Orthodox kids Geoffrey.

31:18 – AM:

That’s interesting pluralism and tolerance You don’t have to necessarily accept pluralism, but you’re tolerant to other people Pluralism is a philosophy.

31:38 – GS:

Exactly You know, and I think nowadays, when we think of tolerance, we typically want the ultra-religious, and just by that term, they sound so radical, to be tolerant of those who are not. But it really does go both ways. There’s a lot of misunderstanding and hatred I think maybe we could have a whole other podcast, because what they call the elephant in the room is when we have a discussion like this, I’m sure there are some of our listeners who are just scratching their head and saying, how can you possibly be a citizen of a country and not consider yourself a part.

32:14 – GS:

Some of the things that you have actually said need to be explained. It’s so problematic. But I think the end takeaway is, listen, there are belief systems. Secularism is a belief system. Judaism is a belief system. If we are going to progress in this world, we see the power of these belief systems. To do bad, and we have to see the power of them to do good. And to change them, you need leadership like you, Rabbi Menachem, and you need understanding.

32:47 – GS:

And I think that’s what’s so, so very important. We have to respect the backgrounds of each other. These are rich backgrounds, thousand-year-old backgrounds. But that doesn’t mean they can’t be changed. We see change overnight. And ultimately, I suspect that this Yom Hazikaron, you know, I was looking through the laws of mourning. And one of the laws is that you can’t greet the mourner. You have to just sit there and wait for them to speak.

33:18 – GS:

And I think we need less speaking and more just being together in unity. And we all come to Yom HaZikaron, to the State of Israel, to being Jewish in different ways. But a situation like today, on Monday, on Tuesday, is one where we can look in each other’s eyes and just see the pain and share that at the most deeply human level. And I just can’t wait to hear how Yom Hazikaron is different this year, because I think it’s going to have major impact, I believe, on how we go forward.

34:00 – MB:

Yes, so I want to say that I absolutely agree. I will write about and I’ll figure out and I will let you know. But I just want to end with one thing that after the Holocaust, two major movements emerged in the Jewish world, the State of Israel and the Haredi community. They each developed very separately, doing their own thing. But over the time, the paths started to cross and even clash. So now I think we got to figure out a way how to coordinate between them.

34:36 – MB:

And I think there is a huge potential, and we need the right people, we need the right vision, and to put aside those old arguments Then it’s visionary symbol fights. And I think it will happen. It will happen. There is no other choice.

34:52 – AM:

What you’re doing, Rabbi Bambach, is really what we call in America a game changer. And we look forward to things in Israel, unity in Israel, and people coming to understand and to tolerate one another, and these are hard times, but hard times lead to good times, and you’re going to be, Geoffrey asked about leadership, you’re going to be one of the leaders that are going to define what the future of Israel looks like,

35:22 – GS:

Thank you so much for joining. I’m going to put a link in the show notes so that people can discover your organization, a link to the PEF page so people can support the organization, and we look forward to learning with you sometime in the future again. Keep up the amazing work and Shabbat Shalom to everyone. Thank you so much for joining us.

35:45 – AM

Shabbat Shalom. Be well. Bye-bye.

35:46 – MB:

Shabbat Shalom. Thank you.